Free Will and Heaven

I am re-reading Heaven by Randy Alcorn. It has generated some interesting thoughts and conversations for me. At least they are interesting to me.

The latest one is the question “Will we still have free will in Heaven?”. Understand that my perspective of Heaven has changed so I need to explain a bit. Alcorn shows in the Bible how  there are two definitions of Heaven. Present and Future.

Present Heaven is where believers go when they die. We go immediately there on death (Today you will be with me in Paradise) and we have a physical body but not a resurrected one. Think of it as a holding place where we know others, remember our lives on Earth and interact with everyone there.

Future Heaven is at the return of Christ and the resurrection of the believers. A new Heaven and a New Earth. At that point we are given our resurrected bodies, placed on the New Earth and we get to grow from there. Still human but now God is living on the Earth in New Jerusalem. Everything is resurrected. Earth, the Heavens, animals, plants, oceans. Everything.

Now, presuming we are fully human and free of our sin nature (like Christ was on Earth) and in our resurrected bodies, will we still have free will? To choose what we want to do, think and then act on it? It’s hard to get your head around that thought because we have never been free of our sin nature. We equate sin with our desires that are corrupted versions of what God intended and that is just the way life is on Earth but as humans we have the ability to think about what we think about.  (I know, it made my head hurt to write it too.)

My thought on this is we will have free will but because of the closer connection to God and the relationship we will have with him we won’t want to do anything that would displease Him. Think about the time you were first ‘in love’ with your spouse. It was all about them. You did whatever they wanted and did it gladly. You enjoyed it and looked for ways to please them. You could choose not to but you did not.

Eventually our selfish nature (sin nature?) kicked in and we saw the connection change but imagine that our connection to God would just increase and expand instead. Our selfish nature won’t be needed because the basis for that is nested in sin (survival, sweat of the brow stuff) and God will be providing for our physical needs as well as our need for relationships.

It’s a radical idea but imagine the New Earth as a place where we live, meet new people, relate to friends, work, create and explore what God has done. God will be there and we can go to Him at anytime or perhaps we will all be able to spend time with Him alone at the same time. (another head stretching thought). Maybe Jesus will be able to be with each of us alone or in groups at the same time.

Our desire to create new technology, art, music, cooking and anything else you desire is realized without the need to be selfish or to look out for ‘No. 1’ because the real No. 1 (God) is looking out for us the way it was meant to be.

I don’t believe that Heaven is all harps and clouds anymore. That was the image I had for a lot of my life and I wasn’t sure I wanted to experience that for eternity. Seems I won’t have to. I am still content to remain here with my family and friends, learning lessons and gaining knowledge and wisdom for what is to come but I am thrilled to think about what is in my future too. Everything I enjoy about life today but more. Much more.

I would love to hear from you and your thoughts as you contemplate the new existence that is promised to us. Comment or email me.

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Graduating…

I read a lot. My latest book was ‘Heaven is for Real’ by Todd Burpo. Not a bad read if you want to get a bit of info about one perspective of heaven. I won’t spoil it for you but one of the stories from the book was about meeting a sister that had died in a miscarriage. She was never alive here on earth outside the womb but there she was in heaven. She knew her brother and she did not have a name. Funny the details they shared but it got me to thinking.

We live on this earth for a time and then if we have accepted Christ as our Savior we arrive in heaven when we die. I know you don’t all believe that but bear with me. I am not wanting an argument about how we get to heaven but rather want to consider what happens once we do.

Another book I read a while back was Heaven by Randy Alcorn. He wrote about what we can learn about heaven from scripture. It’s interesting to say the least. It is not about harps and clouds. It’s about a new heaven and a new earth and all the people that live on it in the future. He wrote about what we take with us to the new earth. Our experiences, culture, language and all the rest.

So, what is the point? I got to thinking that if we take our relationships, experiences, culture, language, food and all we have learned here on earth to heaven and the new earth with us, what do the children who did not make it on earth take with them? What happens to those that were miscarried or aborted.I see the next existence as the thing that makes this all make sense. We struggle, work, laugh, cry and in general live our lives that in a lot of ways don’t make any sense unless you are focused on the next life instead of this one.

I see a level of relationships in heaven (or on the new earth) that will come from the stories and experiences we have now. There are people I want to seek out to talk to. J. Vernon McGee is one. Ronald Reagan is another. Abraham Lincoln, Joshua Chamberlain, family that have already gone on, Mark Elliott, Hugh Pope, ML Arnold and a long list of those that have taught me much here. I am glad for eternity because I think it might take that long just to see all of the people I want to see.

Those children won’t have that to build on. I guess as I consider the idea of eternity maybe it doesn’t matter much to those kids but it seems to me that it is a real reason for what we experience here on this earth.

Kevin Myers of 12Stone church talked once about this life on earth being like college. Preparing us for the next life we get to live. When you’re in college you think that it is the way the real world works and when you graduate and go into the work force you find out that it was not. I wonder what we will think of our lives here once we graduate.

I’m not in a hurry to ‘graduate’ but I am looking forward to it too.

Thanks for listening,
Jerry Robertson

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Testing GraceCaffeine posts

I have moved my personal blog to a new platform. You can find it at www.RealtyCaffeine.com/grace. Come check it out.

Jerry

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The Downfall of a Nation

I love J. Vernon McGee. He taught me a lot about the Christian faith when I was pretty new at it and I never even met the man. He used to have a radio show that broadcast off of Catalina Island near Los Angeles. It was a daylight AM station and in the winter it went off the air about 4:30 in the afternoon. Funny the things we remember.

I can still here the gravelly voice and straight talk that always surprised me in a time when being politically correct was becoming more and more popular. That was 30 years ago. A lot has changed but there is a lot that is still the same.

I got a mailing today from the organization that J. Vernon McGee started before he died and it still does much of the same work today. Check out www.ttb.org if you get a chance and you can hear the same broadcasts I remember.

I want to share a reprint of an article that I received today about our (or any) nation. God’s rules are the way we are supposed to play the game of life and if we don’t there are consequences. I am not talking about fire and brimstone consequences but rather the natural progression of life if we don’t put God first. Check this out and comment if  you feel like it.

God Bless,

Jerry Robertson

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Hope

I was asked to share some thoughts on Hope at an Al-Anon meeting. This is what I shared.

Hope
“Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things and no good thing ever dies”. That is a line from Shawshank Redemption, one of my favorite movies. One of the things that got me through some of our tough times was to remember that where there is life, there is hope. It did not seem that way sometimes. Sometimes you have to go through some pretty stinky stuff to reach the end but in the end there is hope. Even in death there is hope for us. I believe in Heaven and there was a time I saw an image in my mind. I saw that I would see my qualifier in heaven, that I would hug his neck and tell him I loved him. I was just not sure which one of us got there first.

I think this condition of addiction tries to swallow our hope. It strives to isolate us and deny us the companionship that keeps us healthy. It tries to get the addict alone and focused on just the addiction. That leads to death ultimately but I think we die long before our heart stops beating. Aside from capital punishment the next harshest punishment we impose on criminals is solitary confinement. Locked up alone is what we do to them and that is what the addiction tries to do to the addict or alcoholic.

It tries to do it to us too, those of us who live with an addict or alcoholic.

Treatment for the alcoholic is to be in community. To be accountable to another human being. To have a sponsor who helps in the insanity of alcoholism. It is the same for us. To have someone to talk to. To have a community we can talk to that tells us we are not crazy or if we are that it is a normal sort of crazy. We are not in this room to treat an addiction but rather to treat isolation.

I think we can get isolated in lots of ways. We can shut the door of course but we can also work, read, eat, sleep and watch tv or listen to the Ipod or a multitude of other things. They can all isolate us but what we crave most is community. Like minded community helps (as long as the minds are healthy).
I got to spend two days at a training retreat and we talked about lots of things but mostly we talked about hope. It was in the form of doing the right things and working with the right people and staying in community and getting a sponsor (we called them a coach) and staying on track. We go to these meetings in the hope that we don’t need a meeting but if we do then we are where we need to be. We come here to share our hope with those that are lacking in it. To learn that this too shall pass. To learn about boundaries, love, community and hope.

If you are new (or old), keep coming back. It helps you, it helps me and it helps everyone in here and those that will be coming later.

Thanks for listening.

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Tradition 5 – Some thoughts

I am a member of Al-Anon. We are here to help families of alcoholics and last week I was asked to share some thoughts on Tradition 5. These are those thoughts. Take what you like and leave the rest. If you want to know more about Al-Anon please call me. I will help.

Al-Anon Tradition 5: Each Al-Anon Family Group has but one purpose: to help families of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps of AA ourselves, by encouraging and understanding our alcoholic relatives, and by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics.

It is good to define ‘help’. I listen to Dave Ramsey and he says we have to define help. In his case it is usually about money and what to do to help someone who is struggling financially. Most of the time, it is best to not give them money just because they are struggling. He also says that it is not help to give a drunk a drink even if that is what he wants. When my sons were younger I always told them that if they got themselves into jail they could get themselves out. That was part of my definition of help back then. Today the definition includes getting them out if need be. Circumstances are different so a definition is important. This is ours. It has 3 parts.

Practicing the 12 steps of AA ourselves – we can’t help others if we are not healthy ourselves. The steps are a progression that gets us to a point of being healthy. It is a process and we do it over and over and we are never done with it. It is how we do life. As we get better we are able to really help someone else. Located in the panel above your head is an oxygen mask. If the mask drops down place it over your nose and mouth and breathe normally. If you need to help a small child or someone acting like a small child, place your own mask on first and then help the child. We have all heard that on an airplane and we understand it there. It is the same here. Help yourself first so you can then help others.

Encouraging and understanding our alcoholic relatives – This is the hard one. How can we do that?? Isn’t he the reason we are here? Wasn’t her drinking the real problem? This has to start with forgiveness. We have to forgive ourselves first for all the ‘help’ we gave the alcoholic that was not really help at all. Then we have to forgive the alcoholic and get to the place where we can realize that this is a disease. I have a confession to make. I struggle with the concept of ‘disease’ but I get the idea that they really can’t help it. Maybe this idea will help you. It helped me.

The best explanation I have heard is that they are now a pickle. They used to be a cucumber but now they’re a pickle and they will never be a cucumber again. Alcohol has changed them somehow and they really can’t help it anymore. There might have been a point where they could help it but that has past and we need to accept them for what they are. They are pickles but I really like pickles. Some pickles are favorites of mine and I love them.

Remember that forgiveness is about the past and it is about us, not them. No, they might not deserve forgiveness. Forgive them anyway. I am not suggesting that you trust them unless they earn the trust back. They might be trusted again if they get into a program and work it well but trust is about the future not the past. Forgiveness is more for you than it is for them. They don’t have to ask for forgiveness for you to give it to them. They don’t even need to know you are forgiving them for it to help you. It might be too late to forgive them in person for some of you but you need to forgive them anyway. Just forgive them and you start to get better and THEN you can start to love and encourage and your understanding will increase as you ask for wisdom and understanding from God.

Welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics – This is easier for me. Hurting people walk through these doors and we do our best to give them hope and comfort. I think this group does a great job of that and I know Susan and I have been comforted and helped beyond what my words can relay. Just keep on doing what you do. It is working.

OK, I’m done. That is what I had to bring today and I just want to open it up for discussion. Who’s first?? You can leave comments if you log in so have at it.

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Lots of new people

I am very pleased about all the new volunteers that tried out helping on the Brewteam today. We have a great turnout and several that said they would be back to help again. Thanks to everyone that turned out and we’ll be in touch. If you need to get to me before I get back to you my email address is brewteam@12Stone.com so email me if you need me.

I will be working on the new schedules and don’t forget we have two more Sundays of 1st serve so there will be even more joining the team.

Thanks for being willing to help,

Jerry Robertson
Chaplain of Caffeine

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Going to the moon

There is an old story about JFK going to visit NASA during the 1960’s. We were building rockets to go to the moon before the end of decade. President Kennedy talked to rocket scientists, engineers and managers for the whole day. At one point he was walking down the hallway and met a janitor who was working to clean the floor. When the President stopped to talk to him for a minute, he ask the janitor what he was doing. The man straightened up noticeably and said “I am helping get a man on the moon”. It’s an old story but one I was reminded of this week.

As I sat in the service yesterday I heard the story of the dad and daughter who were baptized last week. The daughter who brought her dad to 12Stone. I was reminded that we are not making coffee. We are not cleaning up messes or refilling creamers. We are winning souls into the Kingdom of God. Along with all the other folks who work on Sunday to make it more comfortable for the seeker, new believer and anyone else who finds their way to our doors.

Smile and engage in conversation. Find out who it is that God is bringing to us. They need you. They need  you to smile, shake hands and just be welcoming. Thanks for all you do. It means a lot to me and to the people that smile back.

Thanks for listening,
Jerry Robertson
Chaplain of Caffeine

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Better

I feel like I have a new lease on ministry. I’ll explain more later on what is changing but my focus today was different. I got to engage someone for the Kingdom.

You all know me well enough to know my answer to “How are you doing??”. It’s almost always “Better than I deserve”. Yes, I listen to Dave Ramsey sometimes and yes, that is where I first heard that answer but it is not why I say it. I say it for two reasons.

First, it is always true. I am better than I deserve. The wages of sin is death and I am a sinner. I deserve death but by the the Grace and Mercy of God I have life in Christ so I am always better than I deserve. I never have to lie and say “Fine, I’m fine” when I am not. Life is hard. Sometimes it feels like we are either in a crisis, coming out of a crisis or headed for a crisis. Welcome to life on this planet!! Don’t misunderstand though, it’s a Good Life and I am better than I deserve no matter what is happening to me.

Second, it almost always starts a conversation and today was no exception. I got the question and my answer was “Better than I deserve” and that got another question. “What do you mean?”, he asked. Soooooo, I got to share my faith with someone I thought was a believer but perhaps did not get this basic premise of my life. We talked about Christ and death and sin and finally I said “It is by grace through faith that we are saved, not by works so that no one can boast. (Eph 2:8-9). He walked away with something of the Spirit to contemplate.

My point is that we are all called to share our lives and witness to those we serve and I pray that each of you on the Brewteam at 12Stone will take that seriously. We are there to clean the carts, put coffee up and make sure there is cream and sugar for the people that don’t take coffee in is intended form (black and hot :)) but more importantly we are there to share Christ. You will get the chance to do so if you look for it.

Be alert and yet be relaxed. I don’t want to have you manufacture a moment but rather just be yourself and look for anyone that you can serve and talk to. God will lead you to the moment that He wants you to have.

Thanks for listening and remember that It’s a Good Life!!

Jerry Robertson
Chaplain of Caffeine

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Wild Man

I just watched a movie called Into The Wild. Very cool movie. I won’t spoil it for you but I want to get some thoughts down about it. The big thought is about our relationship to God. To be free and unencumbered with this world and to relate to God the way we were meant to.

The bible says we will not marry in heaven. I am not sure what relationships will be like but I am sure it will be different than what we have now. I think we will find God is finally, consciously always with us. Not like he is with us now but in a way that we simply can’t fathom now. To walk in the cool of the evening with our God. How great is that!!!

To explore all that God has created for us. He made is so big that we will never run out of things to do even in all of eternity. Wow, do I feel small right now. To explore the planet, solar system, galaxy or universe with him at our sides. To know he created it all for his glory and to share it with us. To share it with other people that are in heaven with us. Those we know now and those we will find along the rest of this path.

Focus on the relationships. Us to God and us to others. Nothing else really matters.

Thanks for listening,
Jerry Robertson

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